"What we call the `Renaissance' was participated in by about one thousand people." ~Paul Tillich

Despite the billions of dollars spent worldwide for arts, literature and entertainment, there is precious little "culture" in the world. In fact, humanity is not considered by Sanity Islanders to be a culture at all--it is various societies. If you find yourself in the midst of real culture anywhere, you have found yourself in Sanity Island. THE WAY of Intelligence partially defines "culture" as a lack of competition, people who are doing what interests them, cooperative and independent. It is the nature of people that they mimic or follow... if even a thousand Sanity Islanders existed, there would indeed be a new Renaissance.

An interesting point of view `Dumb and Dumber' culture has bred depravity.


 By Rhondell 

[The following is a talk delivered by Rhondell on a conference call in May of 1986, to a group of interested people in Vancouver, B.C.]

RHONDELL: What did you want to talk about?

AUDIENCE (A): We thought a nice topic would be ďObjective Awareness: obtaining itĒ. What are the methods?

RHONDELL: Weíll talk about achieving objective consciousness. Okay. So, objective consciousness is consciousness with no subjective feeling in it. So when one is purely objective about things which one [tape fuzzy] having a whole different purpose of living rather than trying to be nondisturbed. If one is using all their effort to be nondisturbed then of course everything is judged as to whether it disturbed them or didnít disturb them and it is purely subjective then. So in order to kind of approach objective consciousness, one would start off by first changing the whole purpose of living from trying to be nondisturbed, to something else. So, every person might, could, have a different thing that they would have as their purpose in their everyday living.

We will try one or two just for instance. For instance, I would say, I would contribute to a pleasant harmonious mood, that would be my purpose. Then I am not concerned about whether or not I am disturbed or not disturbed. I would be looking at what I could contribute somewhat.

So I think that the first thing that is necessary is to change oneís purpose of living, because youíll never be able to have objective consciousness while you are attempting to be totally nondisturbed all the time. That wonít work. So first off, change that purpose to whatever it may be and Iím not suggesting any particular one a person would have as their purpose. That entirely depends upon the individual.

So, once you have changed to this purpose then you would not be determining if this bothers me or helps me or anything, one would be busy with their purpose instead of considering, internal considering, as to how it affects number one. And, of course, internal considering is the first thing off that gets, being nondisturbed, that comes from that, as now you begin to be externally considering as to whether or not I was accomplishing the new purpose for which I set out to do and that purpose always has to involve others, or Life, or whatever is around us anyway.

So objective consciousness comes about when you have achieved a complete new purpose and are going about it. And itís not exactly a hard thing to do but one which people try to do when they are still unknowingly trying to be nondisturbed, and of course thereís--this bothers them and so they complain this bothers them, they stick up for their rights, this personís hard to please over here, and how everything is subjective consciousness. So itís actually a very simple thing to do if the purpose of living that one has set for self has been changed to where it is directed outwardly. Itís impossible so long as itís left with the old purpose of living.

Okay, letís take some questions for a few minutes.

A: Is objective awareness a state?

RHONDELL: Objective awareness is a state of living when one has a totally different purpose than the one one is born with to be nondisturbed.

A: The question that I formulated was wondering how faith came into obtaining the objective awareness.

RHONDELL: Faith. Faith is the ability to make up oneís mind singly. If you had made up your mind to direct it to some other activity other than being nondisturbed, it would be very decidedly helpful. If you mean by faith thinking it will be given to you if you wish it and pray for it, or whatever the case may be, and think it would come, it will not. But if you use faith as the ability to make up your mind singly and you made up your mind singly that you were going to have a different purpose than the purpose of just being nondisturbed, then obviously I think that would be decidedly of value.

A: We were talking about faith and objective awareness and we are familiar with the various states of consciousness beginning with, you know, death and going up through coma all the way up through the various sleep states to contentment. Can objective awareness function within the state we call contentment, or does that begin only with vital interest and then move on up from there?

RHONDELL: Above contentment. Because if youíre real contented, youíll be pretty apt to be disturbed if something upsets the contentment for a minute. And then you go back subjective again.

A: So objective awareness includes a number of states.

RHONDELL: It includes any kind of state a person would be in beyond any kind of a tone the person would be in, starting with vital interest and so on.

A: On one of the talks youíve given, I believe it was the talk about ďAttention,Ē you said that there comes a point where the observer and the observed become one, itís no longer youíre just seeing something now. [RHONDELL: right.] That sounds to me like a state where there is no longer objective awareness because you have become the object which you, or whoever or whatever that is, no longer is, because itís become the object.

RHONDELL: Well it is both. It is both the object and the objective. I think it could be that they would be in union. So weíll say that the observer and that which is observed are in union. It does not take away the fact that you would still be John or Mary.

A: In that state of unity would there still be an experience of any kind of feelings you talked about, earlier on in this talk, that when one is/has objective awareness there is no longer subjective feeling? [RHONDELL: Right.] So does that mean that in that state there are no longer feelings?

RHONDELL: There would be only a feeling of, possibly a sense of wellbeing, but not all the feelings that that people go around with: I feel hurt, and I feel pleased, and I feel elated, I feel depressed, and etc. No, those feelings are gone.

A: So there is no feeling of, say, warmth or affection?

RHONDELL: Not in the usual sense of the term, because that affection is usually that somebody has pleased me and by the same token, that person does something else and the whole feeling is gone in a few minutes. We observe that practically every day.

A: Related to this, when I approve something, I feel good. I like to approve things. [Right.] Now that gives me a good feeling. Does having that feeling disappear as well in objective awareness or is that still a part of subjective awareness?

RHONDELL: The feeling that you have approved of something?

A: Well letís sayÖ when I like something I feel good.

RHONDELL: Well, naturally.

A: Right. Now I can be objective and I can still approve, it seems to me. From my experience I can look at something and I can sayÖ

RHONDELL: Well, it wouldnít matter whether you approved or disapproved it. In fact you would do neither. Thatís what weíre talking about, that you would do neither, unless you feel that thereís a certain approval for all things in an objective awareness. Thereís an approval for Life. Thereís an approval, thereís no opposite to it of disapproval, okay?

A: So there is still an experience of some type of feeling.

RHONDELL: A feeling of wellbeing, yes. Usually we have a decided sense of wellbeing if weíre approving of whatís going on around us. We have a sense of just ďbadĒ of anything weíre disapproving of. So in objective awareness there is no disapproval. In fact I would say there is no opposites floating around of any kind.

A: Where is your attention focused in objective awareness?

RHONDELL: It would depend. Some of it would be, usually itís on what your purpose is, itís not necessarily on every little thing thatís going on around you. Itís on the present moment and on your purpose. Attention is on the present moment and on your purpose.

A: So would you be very concerned about what your feelings were? Other A: No! Thatís the whole point!

RHONDELL: Thatís the whole point! To not be concerned with what you might be experiencing at the moment. I have stated it, sometimes rather crudely, that one has the same sense of wellbeing whether one is observing a sunset or a dead dog in the street with its insides sloshed out. Most people have a revulsion at one and a joy to the other. But when you look at it, why it really is no differentóI am free to experience whatever is coming along here. In any objective awareness is total freedom, free to experience whatever is there.

A: So would your purpose then consume your attention so you wouldnít be subjectively concerned about what you see, or be subjectively involved to a great degree withÖ

RHONDELL: Anything.

A: Except your purpose?

RHONDELL: Right. And thatís not subjective, thatís objective. Purpose when it is laid out and obviously there, there is no Ėwhether I am accomplishing or not accomplishing, I just know what the purpose is and I am interested in it.

A: So that would mean that you would serve your purpose?

RHONDELL: Well, you would be accomplishing your purpose, Iíd say. You are working at accomplishing it in varying degrees, sometimes more, sometimes less, but you would always be working at what your purpose is.

A: What do you need to do to get from contentment to a place where you have this objective awareness? What are the steps?

RHONDELL: The attention would be totally turned outwardly, I think first step on it would be to totally turn your attention outwardly instead of on self. You see, most people have ingrown attention. Their awareness to whether they are healthy this moment or not, whether they are happy this moment or whether people are treating them nice at this moment or whether they are financially well off this moment and on and on so the attention is turned inwardly. In objective consciousness the attention is always turned outwardly It is observing something outside of self. Self is a point of awareness, and thatís about it.

A: Now when we are turning our attention outward as opposed to inward, where does that fit in with observing the activities of self, small ďsĒ?

RHONDELL: That should have been left a long time ago. Weíve repeatedly stated that six months is long enough to be observing self and once youíve done that then you leave it behind and go on. Youíve learned it. The self is a bundle of conflict. So once weíve looked at that we leave it behind. If we keep on doing it, why, we get hung up there.

A: So youíre saying that this objective awareness does not include the state of observing self?

RHONDELL: Oh, no, thatís when you start off, and that comes after that. First you find out that your whole purpose of living is to be nondisturbed, and that youíre sticking up for your rights and youíre blaming and youíre complaining, trying to please everybody and that gets in conflict with having your way. You believe and do as you are told by your authorities and thatís doing their rights, not yours. Youíre trying to improve yourself and thatís in conflict with blaming. So the self is a bundle, self with a little ďsĒ is a bundle of conflict an once weíve studied that and seen it then we are ready to proceed beyond that and leave that part of the activities where it was. Ö we finished that. Like you finish second grade you donít stay in the second grade, you go to third grade or somewhere.

A: God, itís good to have that little reminder here.

RHONDELL: Right, because every once in a while people think they ought to be considering themselves, self-knowing from now on. We say that when self-knowing is done then you are ready to do something else.

A: So then what would we then get on with?

RHONDELL: We would get on with the activity of having a purpose, a consciously chosen purpose and proceeding with it. I have some notes here if you want to jot down some things.

Number one: Mankind has only one instinct: to survive. Most other creatures in this world have many instincts, they build the same kind of nest, they build the same kind of a thing. Man can build any kind of house he wants to or he can live without a house if he wants to or whatever, he doesnít have any instincts but to survive.

Number two: Mankind is one hundred percent subject to suggestion one hundred percent of the time. Now Iíd have to say that has to be true, or man wouldnít be able to learn instead of instinct. He learns to build houses, drive cars, to fly airplanes, he learns to write, learns to talk, etc.

Number three: At birth, due to these two fundamentals that man only has a purpose of surviving and is one hundred percent subject to suggestion, the infant forms a purpose of living almost immediately, to regain the nondisturbed state that it experienced in utero.

Number four: Man is designed to function as a non-conditioned being. Thatís the way heís designed. He has the life principle and he has awareness and he has the body, heís always doing some function, and those work together in the living cycle. So that whatever one senses in the environment, if itís with objective consciousness, is related as to ďwhat isĒ and is relayed to ďIĒ by whatever sensation/feeling goes on. So when man has this living cycle he perceives, he has a true feeling about it, he mobilizes the energy to do whatever is the appropriate thing, and he does it, and that is the completed cycle.

Number five: But man does, because he has been conditioned since infancy, he starts off with this purpose of being nondisturbed, he starts off with what we refer to as the vicious cycle. He, due to his false purpose of living, he doesnít perceive, he is impressed by certain things, he has a false feeling of emergency, very often, he prepares energy to fight or run instead of to function.

Number six: So he mobilizes energy to fight or run and he doesnít use it for that because he doesnít fight and he doesnít run, because all the little conditioning says you have to please everybody and you have to do what you are told by your authorities and you have to improve yourself. Winds up with him being in a different state, so now then he has an unbalanced state of being and he is always adapting. And so in this he creates things that doesnít work and he is in a state of conflict.

So weíll review again that, number seven: Mankind is the only unspecialized creature on earth. Therefore the only thing that mankind can do is to act out roles, or parts. Is that right? Most people being totally unaware of this are cast in roles by somebody else or by society or by circumstances, and therefore feel themselves to be victims. And so most everybody feels themselves to be a victim of some sort or other. Now if the person begins to realize that he is not a victim, that he is perfectly a free agent, that he is unspecialized, that he must act out some role. Now this role or part if what I refer to as a purpose. So he acts out some purpose and thatís his role on the big stage of everyday life. Okay? So then he doesnít have to go by the suggestion and he doesnít have to have somebody else to cast him into a role or roles. So he does his own roles then, okay. And that role, I tell people I have as my role being what to me is a good guest on planet earth. That keeps me going all the time.

Number eight: Now in this you remember that you can have three things you can do: you can think and you can act and you can feel. Now as long as you do your thinking first as to what your purpose is and how you would act to actualize that purpose, then you will have the feeling and the feeling makes it easy to actualize it. Action/feeling is a two-way street. It goes both ways. The more you feel a certain part, the more you act a certain part. The more you act it the more you feel it, as it goes around. By that same method you can feel any way you would like.

Number nine: So now all of this is known as choosing oneís purpose. Now most people probably would have several purposes. Hopefully the most valued purpose is to be conscious. So letís say that I play the role of being a conscious individual, just any role that you pick out will be being conscious. You have to be conscious or you couldnít act out your role, or your part that youíre playing. And you would no doubt also have a purpose of earning a living, of being a companion, or a parent or etc., etc. And it would not have the purpose of being controlled by suggestion. Thatís one sure thing you would leave off. You wouldnít have that purpose.

Number ten: The individual would no doubt see that doing whatever is necessary to realize oneís purpose would be to oneís advantage. No doubt this purpose would see that it is never to oneís advantage to harm anyone. That it is to oneís advantage to contribute to life about them, to be considerate of all life on the planet earth and to see whatís going on here. So in effect he has become an objective conscious individual.

Number eleven: The person doing this would see what they need as opposed to what they want. Now itís awfully easy to get caught up in wants, as everybody knows. All of us know that. I settled that one a long time ago, saying I want everythingóbut I donít want it all now. So actually, what one wants is to satisfy the senses and they will never be satisfied anyway, so we might as well take what comes our way and handle all we want to. One sees that what one wants is included in the state of mind. Thatís what you really need, is something that youíre in charge of, the objective. So one would be contented to be dissatisfied as far as the senses are concerned, I am always dissatisfied in some part of the senses and I am contented to be that way. So contentment is a state of the mind and satisfaction is a state of the senses. So as concerns wants, I am contented to be dissatisfied. No matter what we had or didnít have weíd still just be dissatisfied. So letís be contented to be that way. A person would know that what they want is an ever varying ever changing series of wants and therefore non-important. They would see that what they need is wisdom, understanding, and an increase in faith, and faith, remember, is an increase in the ability to make up oneís mind singly. When you do that, everybody better get out of your way. With wisdom, understanding, and an increased faith that he can take care of the apparent need of food, shelter, clothing and transportation--we all have a somewhat apparent need of those thingsóbut if we had faith, the ability to make up oneís mind, that we made up our mind, we could have those with the greatest of ease. Okay?

Number twelve: The person conscious of six through eleven would have started and established a renaissance. Renaissance means a new birth, a new Self, a new being, a new purpose. This renaissance will of necessity spread partially because of the wisdom and understanding and because, partially because the human attribute of a hundred percent suggestibility one hundred percent of the time. So we could all contribute to a renaissance. They come along about every seven hundred years, and itís about time for one at this moment. And so if we each were doing our number of consciously choosing our own purpose, acting it out, we wouldnít have to tell anybody very much about it, wouldnít even mention it because people will ask. And we have become a new being on the face of the earth. The old one that we were out there, struggling to be nondisturbed, has disappeared, and we have a brand new purpose now, person who is very unusual on the face of the earth. And is instead of trying to get all the things they could get, theyíre making sort of a contribution, they are being harmless, and they are being very considerate, and it is noticeable and itís a new person, and will have started a renaissance, and we invite each one of you to join in that renaissance.

Questions, comments? Whatever you would like.

A: You talked about think, act, feel. And in previous writings you have said thinking is nothing but association. It is non-creative.

RHONDELL: Okay, so that was using it in a different context somewhere. Thinking, in the usual thing, is letting a lot of words run through your head. Itís merely traffic, as one is sitting on the side of a freeway watching cars go by. Thinking in its true sense of the word is, has four questions involved with it: What am I? Where am I?, Whatís going on?, and What can I do? So when you are considering those you can be said to be truly thinking, instead of merely having brain activity, which is usually passing for thinking.

A: You said in objective awareness you do not have feelings. Is that correct?

RHONDELL: Not in the kinds of feeling that most people live with every dayÖ with nervous reaction to everything that is happening on it. A true feeling is altogether different from the sensations that most people call feeling. Most people call feeling some kind of a sensation. So you walk up to somebody and say how are you today and he says I donít feel so good. You say hello how are you today, and so I feel pretty good everything is going all right. In other words, heís talking about his sensations. Now a feeling is, a true feeling, is the sense of existence, and thatís about it. Itís a pretty high state of wellbeing. I donít know how to put it in a different set of words but sensation and feeling are two different things and I try to separate those every once in a while according to what I am discussing at the moment. So letís make this, we are talking at this moment about not sensation, okay?

A: So when you have a true feeling itís not sensation?

RHONDELL: Not. No. Absolutely. Most people confuse those two and they think, call sensations, in the everyday language on the street, call sensation feeling.

A: But donít you have to use sensation to come at, come to a true feeling? You have to useÖ

RHONDELL: But itís a minor ailment compared to feeling. How do you want to feel within yourself, is what weíre talking about when weíre talking about think-act-feel.

A: Now letís get back to having the true feeling based on a pure perception, okay, now weÖ

RHONDELL: Oh, right, a pure perception instead of how does this affect me. THATíS what clutters it.

A: But if weíre having a perception, maybe a car is coming towards us, we generally have a certain feeling which will bring about an action, usually we get away from the car.

RHONDELL: You get away from the car. By the same token, if you have some kind of action it will produce a feeling that goes with it, a true feeling. DO separate feeling from sensation, thatís the main point I am trying to make.

A: Okay what about when you walk into a place, and we talk about one kind of contribution is to do what you can do to improve the atmosphere. That atmosphere is a very tangibleÖ

RHONDELL: We talk about creating a pleasant harmonious MOOD.

A: Right. Now that atmosphere is a very tangible reality. You can walk into a restaurant and you can see itís got a good atmosphere or a bad atmosphere or one you like or one you donít like.

RHONDELL: You donít even have to go in, you can feel it as you go by.

A: Right. Now is that a sensation or is that a feeling?

RHONDELL: Thatís a feeling. You are producing a feeling in people. They donít know what to name it. In other words, they didnít have a sensation that this is pretty, this is ugly. This is warm, this is cold or anything of the sort, they just said, I want to go in here. We work with some people who have restaurants and people will feel it long enough, they said, ďWell, I just had a feeling to come over here and see about this a while ago.Ē They donít know what. They donít have a sensation, but there is a decided attraction there, but itís not a sensation.

A: So it would follow then that when one has determined what oneís inner state is going to be then that feeling would be radiated.

RHONDELL: Right, it would be radiated all over. You may call it a state of being, instead of feeling, if you wanted to. I try to use very simple words, but you could say itís a state of being, of everybody in this place isÖ something, so if you started a certain state of being in every one of you, of feeling real delightful, there would be people attracted to it. Being and true feeling is about the same and feeling of emergency and false feelings are sensations basically.

A: How do organizations come into this renaissance of mankind?

RHONDELL: Most organizations will interfere with it. Itís an individual matter of what you do and what somebody else does; and what somebody else does, an organization organizes it and the first thing that you know they are interested in maintaining the organization. So I wouldnít think in terms of organizations, my friend.

A: So itís just a matter which I wouldnít attempt to formulate an organization just set aboutÖ

RHONDELL: Usually an organization of any kind, set up by anybody, whether you or me or anybody else, would be an interference. Organizations are not interested in a renaissance, they are interested in their own continuation.

A: And they might use the renaissance or the idea of a renaissance.

RHONDELL: Oh yeah, they might talk about it, yeah. They do all the time, but they donít bring about one. Itís an individual matter. And if many individuals were awake enough to be in objective consciousness and being involved in it, then it would come about, would affect everybody. It spreads very decidedly. Highly contagious. Just like conditioning is highly contagious.

A: Okay, this goes back to something you were talking about earlier on when you were talking about purpose and I wonder if you would provide us with some hints for staying on purpose what we could watch for, some suggestions for staying on purpose?

RHONDELL: Some for instances?

A: Yeah. Well, I know myself, although I appear clear when I have a purpose, before too long I become distracted from my purpose and it may be a period of time before I realize I am distracted and I was just wondering if there is anything one can watch for.

RHONDELL: If there is anything you can do. Okay. Youíre going to forget them every once in a while, I do know that, when you first start, after a while you will not, but at first, for a year maybe, or so, you might forget it for the time being. But I would just wake up and say, Well, Iíve been to sleep and I didnít do my purpose and Iím back on it now. Now be sure that the purpose is something that I am interested in, in the one that I set up. If you put up a purpose because you think you should, it is extremely easy to forget it. But if it is something you are interested in, you donít usually ever forget it in a very short length of time at all. So itís a matter of even if you did, donít find fault with yourself. You forget it for a little while and just say here it is. And I would write it down somewhere where I put it where I would run into it frequently. Try and keep a little note of ďthis is my real purpose,Ē and I would have an adequate number of other semi-purposes that went along with it, you know. Like earning a living, whatever the case may be, but I said I have a purpose of being what is to me a good guest on planet earth and I donít think I forget it very often. So whatever your purpose is, be sure youíre somewhat interested in it anyway, okay?

A: Could you give some examples of other purposes besides being a good guest.

RHONDELL: I know people who have the purpose of nothing but make money, and they do. I know some people who have the purpose of treating everybody kind of harsh and being known as a Ö uh, it wouldnít make any difference, if a person had it their purpose to be a mafia don, they consciously choose that purpose, but itís a conscious purpose for some people. Some would be to make the world more beautiful. Some would be to exploit the earth to its fullest extent they could. One could be all over the place. One might want to accomplish a certain piece of work, whatever it may be. One may make it as their purpose to be a loving parent. So I could pick up all sorts of purposes. The point is that you can have one purpose for a while, if you want to change it, you are at liberty to do so. The only thing is you know youíre doing it. You donít have somebody else suggest you change it, you change it. So I would start off, for anybody whoís decided to pick up one, with one that was fairly simple to do and get it very proficient and then proceed on to another one. I know some people that have taken on as the purpose to never be a victim. Any of those could be very worthwhile. So I think that is something that every person should choose for themselves, thatís some examples. The point is they are consciously chosen. Not that it is good or bad, right or wrong, according to everybody else, but it was that I consciously chose this purpose for myself. This is the role I am going to act out in everyday living. And if I ever want to change it, I will.

A: So you could have a purpose that is not necessarily going to produce a life-supporting situation?

RHONDELL: Thatís right. You could choose a purpose to destroy it.

A: So a purpose does not necessarily involve objective awareness. A person who chooses to make lots and lots of money may only be doing that to get the nondisturbed state.

RHONDELL: That could be, but he may just be doing it for the fun of doing it. I donít know. I let that be his own, to demonstrate that it can be done. Maybe he is going to use it to build buildings for people who need one but donít have it. I donít know what his purpose isóthe use for the money. I know that if he wants to make it his purpose to make a lot of money, heís going to do it. I donít want to judge the rightness or wrongness of his purpose. Iím only looking at that he consciously chose that purpose. It could be purely objective, could be purely subjective. I donít know. I think you could if you consciously choose the purpose to be nondisturbed, you would be a lot better off than have it be unconscious to be nondisturbed. I donít know if it wouldóyouíd come any nearer accomplishing it, but, yeah, youíd probably come nearer accomplishing it. The whole thing is consciousness. Weíre talking about being conscious here.

A: Now, when one chooses the purpose of being conscious then, is that a subjective state, because it is I becoming conscious?

RHONDELL: I wouldnít choose that purpose. I would say you are only conscious when you have consciously chosen a role, otherwise you are not conscious anyway. If you just decide to be conscious, that would be a double bind I think if you get into there.

A: A double bind?

RHONDELL: Yeah. You get in trouble there. Leave that alone. So, some purpose that I could lay out or some role that I was goingÖ letís say role and purpose are interchangeable here. So heís going to play the role of an artist. Well, all right, begin playing the role of painting or doing whatever kind of art you want. But be sure that it is consciously chosen, thatís all. Not that itís good, bad, right or wrong, or any of that. Itís that you have chosen to play a role out. Playing a role and being conscious is the same. Now, objective consciousness is another step after being conscious. You have to be conscious before you can be objectively conscious.

A: Thatís a nice distinction.

RHONDELL: Right. Got to be at least conscious before you can start being objectively conscious.

A: Whatís the difference?

RHONDELL: One youíre conscious, the other youíre objectively conscious. Youíre no longer involved in it, itís just consciousness. So first step in, it is to be conscious. Second step is to be objectively conscious.

A: Then you would just be doing it, you wouldnít be thinking about it?

RHONDELL: Itíd be kind of spontaneous without any concern over ďIĒ whatsoever. I highly recommend that a person get conscious first and then talk about objective consciousness.

A: So a purpose does not necessarily bring about objective awareness?

RHONDELL: No, it sure wonít. Itís a great aid to it, but its first step is to be conscious, then the net step we would work on after some time would be objective consciousness, okay?

A: So being conscious would mean that you chose to act however you acted?

RHONDELL: Consciously chose your role and then acting it out. Right. Thatís the first step out.

A: And then objectively conscious would be you would be a particular choiceÖ

RHONDELL: Without any regard to your number one, to self. As to how it affected you or how what other people did affected you or etc. Itís only being ďthis is going on.Ē

A: So vital interest would not be a state of subjective awareness, it would be a state of consciousness.

RHONDELL: It could be, but not necessarily.

A: Okay. Where does objective awareness begin in terms of the states we talked about, vital interest and above that was exhilaration etc.

RHONDELL: Objective awareness is a disinterest in your own sensations. I would say itís a disinterest in sensations as such. Weíll put it another way, suppose you to be several thousand feet up in the air and you could see everything that was going on through rooftops and everything else down here, and you didnít judge it as to how it affected you. You would be conscious of it but it would not be affecting, because you are several thousand feet up in the air, okay?

A: So the purpose would be more real than myself?

RHONDELL: Probably would be. It would be entirely concerned with everybody else. Not being concerned with sensation at all. Most people are controlled by sensation, and it is not so hard to get away from being controlled by sensations, okay.

Anybody else got a question there?

A: Iíve got one that is sort of forming, itís not really clear in my mind yet, it has to do with if I have a purpose and I am being conscious, it still can happen because I am one hundred percent subject to suggestion all the time, I could begin to unconsciously listen to a suggestion and begin to make something important.

RHONDELL: Well you might do that, but I think you would catch on to that. The fact of knowing that you are one hundred percent subject to suggestion a hundred percent of the time makes you free from it. As long as you donít think that youíre subject to suggestion you are controlled by it. Once you know you are only subject to suggestion and it is there all the time, you are no longer controlled by it. Thatís the advantage of knowing about it. You are no longer controlled by it then.

A: Does that mean when that happens, that say we begin to make something important, the self has become active again?

RHONDELL: You would notice it. Almost every day, a person down the street, they donít know whether they are making anything important and when they are not making anything important. In fact, they almost always have a whole bunch of things important, and are in a state of anxiety. Once you have been free of anxiety for awhile, you start to make something important, you could see it so quick itís like a loud ringing alarm bell. Like a fire siren going off.

A: That is my experience, but sometimes I canít always find right away. I have to do quite a bit of work to find what it is I am making important.

RHONDELL: Well thatís certainly all right. Itís a good thing to work on. Something for you to do, my friend! [laughter] I can usually find what it is right away.

A: Should you then try to avoid whatever it is that is important?

RHONDELL: Well, you just quit making it important. Just quit making it important.

A: There doesnít seem to be any more questions from our end. Do you have anything to cap it off, or?

RHONDELL: Well, Iíd say, start a renaissance! One of you start it and itíll spread all over Vancouver before long.

A: Thank you for talking to us, and I think weíve all enjoyed it immensely.

RHONDELL: Ití been a joy talking to you. I hope everyone has a lovely afternoon.



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